So many Studies. So Little Wisdom

so many Christian Studies so little wisdom this is Church's

lame Marky Mark how's it going I'm doing all right there Funky Bunch all right we got so much to get through this week so let's go ahead and and Blaze through a couple headlines so we can get to the first big headline um the first thing I had I found in the Christian Post I found the first two headlines in the Christian Post kind of both kind of like these weird semi surveys of why people less people are going to church right and I'm sure this is accurate information yeah you're going to love this you know so the Christian Post came up with uh the great the great results that um you know what it is it's that people are

indifferent that was their big find people are indifferent so not that I want I don't want to stay on this one because we want to go to some some more interesting articles but like the big qu like we know that people are indifferent why don't you follow up with the question why are people indifferent why did my dog die it didn't live forever I mean like it's just okay moving on anyway so the Christian Post agrees with us that people are tired of church drama right but when when you go into the article like there thinking about like church drama like um you know infighting and rumors and gossip and and things like that and it's like no no no no that's not the drama that people are tired with tired of people are tired of the drama that we talk about every week sexual scandals Financial scandals leadership scandals it's not the gossip that's killing your church it's the fact that your church is every bit as corrupt as any other Wall Street company out there ah yeah I I would have to agree with you a lot more than I could agree with them yeah anyway so why don't you go ahead and tell us about the the uh the article that that you found because it's much more interesting than the typical nauseating here's why people aren't going to church anymore yeah like this is right there like when you talk about how evangelicals get wacky around election time like this is just right there so in Nashville uh an Emanuel Church you have the Pastor Ray ortland um and he decided to put a post on social media media saying like I support KLA Harris which is not an especially interesting thing to do yeah like you and 45% of the rest of the country okay yeah um and then he ended up deleting the post um and saying it was because it was being misinterpreted what yeah like I I really wish that the article would have gone into like more detail and like what were the misinterpretations people were having but it's just like there's there's there's just so many angles you could take on this one and my my angle on it is just kind of like yeah well you know you're a pastor and so endorsing even on social media like you know on your private or on your whatever you know your personal page um like that could have some backlash so like would have thought to myself yeah I don't want to make that a public statement um but I guess uh like he had some convictions about not voting for Trump like and he just kind of gave up on it so I'm not really sure like if I should call him a coward or just a pragmatist yeah like that this breaks the church in two ways right so the one way is like how weird is it that that like all these christian celebrities are are dogpiling on this dude for having a political opinion right and and so like that's strange in and of itself it's not unheard of of course right everybody in the land of of of churches has an opinion about something right so that's not a big surprise that people have opinions it's interesting how this one issue gives everybody license just to like forget about the command to love God and love one another and just treat each other horribly you know yeah I like the study I'm doing right now you know it's for my own personal benefit is like you know many many many verses talking about how we should be you know love one another of course you know we should love our enemies as well but then we we should be humble and we should be kind and gentle with others and you know all that good stuff and like my general offense level at Christian celebrity to begin with um I just feel like if they're going to Heap on this guy they're

just uh like if they're GNA Heap on this guy they're just showing their true colors um and that I'm not saying that they're not saved but I'm just saying that um they need to slow their rooll and take the plank out yeah of Their Own I first you know yep I think the other part of this is um if somebody sins against you there's a Reconciliation process right yeah but having an opinion is not the same as sinting against somebody else and so all all these people are dogpiling on him as if he's like beaten them or something done something to them personally M and like there this is not church leaders calling to somebody to repent and this is just church leaders dog piling on somebody for political gain you and I don't get it and so just so we can keep this train moving the other part of this that broke my brain is like how did you post this and not think you were going to get some major blowback did you think it was just going to be no buies that responded to this of course you're going to get blowback for some larger name Christians not that anybody in this list is like really that spectacular Christian celebrity but of course you're going to get some blowback like what kind of spineless twerp just takes the post down at the first sign of push back yeah I mean like that was like a real gen Z kind of a move yeah um which is not like an insult against gen Z it's just that like like they inherited all this technology but we hadn't fully lived into the consequences of social media yet yeah and it's like he should have known and I kind of don't feel sorry for him because of it a little bit it's it's hard to fully get him off take him off the hook like yeah it's social media somebody's going to notice but you know it we don't serve each other by being complete a-holes to one another when there is a disagreement of opinion um it's just it's unbiblical yeah that's all there is to say about it let's move on you found a um another study um which to me is far more interesting than uh than this last story so why don't we talk about this new study you found okay so the Barner group in association with some Christian University in Arizona um who I will not name because I can't remember didn't write it down um but basically like they have a research a social research Department that was funded by the parner group um and it's just this the subject is they were trying to figure out you know what are the consequences on societ of having unbiblical worldviews and in this one they were looking at uh mental health right and just no committal to saying well how much mental health problems are caused by an unbiblical worldview because you know you shouldn't have to back up your claims with like data that can be verified right especially in a study right study in air quotes yeah uh but it's it's it's it it was some of the most vapid nonsense I've read recently uh because I was going through the the study it's just it's trash it's just saying oh well we think this is true is all the whole thing was yeah um and and that's garbage you you're you're trying to parade something around as having intellectual rigor and it doesn't right and that's basically like when you you go to the bookstore and you go to like the Christianity section that's basically the entire Christianity section is people just writing from the hip and they're being very little research or or academic rigor to it and so here's the thing um anybody who's done sports or anybody who's um been in the military or anybody who's done anything that requires a high degree of coordin coordination words is hard between people or groups or teams only thing like that they understand this concept of you execute the way you practice right the practice is the way you practice the is the way you execute so if you practice um without doing everything exactly right when it comes time to really execute it you're not going to do everything right and so you know that when places like Bara put out these studies and they're not academically rigorous you know there's not a sufficient sample size um all the wording is kind of ambiguous you know that it was not only um academically lazy you know that most likely it's also theologically lazy and that's not a good place for church leaders to be is in the theologically laser lazy Place words is hard lazy Place yeah and I when I looked at the study uh there were there was not a single citation um so they didn't even do the work to say oh hey here's a peer-reviewed article that we can reference that says that X y or Z is a problem but the thing that really really gets me on this one is that you know we've seen this chain of you know Christian toxic masculinity and some of these guys are saying oh well mental illness is just an imaginary madeup thing it's not real so now you have the Barner group jumping in saying that again an unqualified amount because they don't want to like say how much because again there's no rigor here but that a large degree or a significant degree of mental illness present in you know especially like Gen X and gen Z and you know gen Alpha is the result of just thinking the wrong thing yeah um and that's failing to recognize a huge host of material conditions that we are all Liv Liv in yeah that are difficult and tiring and divisive and all that and it's like it's like no you just need to think the right things about God well what if like you and me don't agree with what Barna thinks that we're supposed to believe about God because he thinks that like we don't have a Biblical worldview because we don't conform to you know his it's like it's just it's the worst trash and it's it's just insulting the people that suffer with with these issues yeah it it's the it's to get out of jail free card that that like you know like all the over overachieving Christian students like they all they all do that Bible challenge Bible quiz thing you know it's kind of like the Bible version of Jeopardy and they know like hey when you don't know the answer the answer is probably Jesus right and this is like the adult version of that well we don't really know why why these complex like like you know um depression and anxiety and all we don't know why these things are are chronic and that people can't get out of these funks so we're just going to say Jesus it's so so um mind-bending for sure yeah philosophically it's this is just rank idealism yeah um where you're saying like what's going on in your head is is is the you know is what's going to be reality so if we just just change what you think then then you entirety of your reality will change and it leaves out you know the materiality of our existence yeah uh Jesus was both spirit and you know as God and human yeah um you know we all exist in that same Duality we were made to be created creatures uh or embodied creatures sorry yeah yep um and it's just like so like theologically I feel like this is really thumbing its nose just at what scripture tells us about what we are yeah why look at a problem with Nuance when you can just take a simple answer simple way out you know all complex issues have simple answers of course they must you know my Bible tells me so okay even though it doesn't that's okay moving on all right uh you know it is election season and in the vein of election Seasons irritate me so I'm going to irritate you Tim Walt uh just had his VP debate and uh so today in on on the internet an article that Tim Waltz misled Americans on his radical abortion record pro-life leaders say imagine that a pro-life leader has something negative to say about Tim Waltz and his support of being pro choice yeah and and of course you know that this radical um pro- choicing thing um definitely doesn't include ideas about what that mean what pro-choice means um that are complete lies BS um you know definitely not saying that like you know they can just kill babies like after a normal birth or any of that just all this is based on the on the truth and is you know on the level yeah okay so first of all first of all church leaders get your story straight okay Rick Warren uh Saddleback Church uh author of you know Purpose Driven Corvette ownership you know um Purpose Driven everything if there's something that can be a noun you can purpose drive it you know so for a long time he gave kind of like he has this stump speech speaking of politics he kind of has this speech that he has ready to go whenever he's a guest lecturer anywh and he's not necessarily speaking on a specific topic he just kind of has this generic sermon ready to go right yeah and part of this sermon is is he he defines the word radical as not being like we use it to talk about terrorists and how they're crazy and stuff and he talks about how radical is the essence of something you know and so you you guys need to get your story straight is radical bad or radical good because Rick Warren come you know he has a lot more pull with me than your no name but does and he's telling me that radical is good so you may want to avoid that word when disparaging other men of Faith okay next I I I just want to blow past this um yeah next the opposition the political opposition is not your mortal enemy you know yes we believe as Christians that that life is special that life has value that it is spiritual that All Things Are Spiritual so that gives us a point of view that does not make every Living Single being with a different point of view the enemy and we need to stop using the biggest most awful rage inducing words to describe cribe every single person who doesn't agree with us it makes us look small it makes us look cowardly it makes the church look like the only the only um uh rhetorical tool we have in our toolbox is to be hyperbolic and to blow all things out of proportion yeah and you know especially when like how many poor people did they step over to get you know into their churches or various venues it's like there's a there's a lot of hypocrisy going on that you know and I like not say that you and I are exempt but yeah clearly we're not that bad at least you know I mean it's like we we've made some progress all right let's move on I didn't want to spend a lot of time on this one so let's keep going we have I couldn't believe it this week when I saw how many stories of sexual abuse there are so I'm just going to blow past a few of them so we can get to the one that we really want to talk about um Bible study leader arrested on child's charges the child sex abuse youth pastor faces 50 years in prison for impregnating a girl former members want investigation of the Morning Star Ministry sexual abuse multiple cases former Mega Church Pastor Mike Baker gets a new building for a new church when his son um and him uh you know kind of he's related to his son clearly there were sexual abuse scandals there that he covered up uh which brings us to the actual story that we actually want to spend some time on um group calls for investigation in the morning star Ministries after abuse claims Mark you want to walk us through this sure so it's kind of impressive you it says you know over a hundred former Ministry workers and their Affiliates um you have signed a petition calling for an investigation and uh you know of course sexual abuse of minors uh from uh like you know an important fellow there Rick Joiner um like that's that that's almost not tracking um anymore um but like for me uh like like the the big thing is just like how aggressive um people around that situation are being with it um which to me is is kind of a a positive movement uh you know usually it's you know just a few victims um or you know maybe more than a few victims but like they're kind of alone in that journey and then then they're trying to get action taken um just like we talked about the SBC in the past and in the problems that the southern baptist conference have had um so I'm glad to see that you know more people are beginning to band together and really to Bear one another one another's burdens and love like scripture teaches us to yeah the one thing about this article that that really took me by surprise uh um is this notion among Ministry leaders that um that there's a statute of limitations right and like oh because this issue is so long ago um we dealt with it then we dealt with the best we could in a different time in a different culture where where the culture was to sweep it under the rug and make it go away like it's it was in 2024 so we shouldn't be held today to today's standards for things that we did back then and I think for for the church who claims to take the spiritual High Ground the moral High Ground the ethical High Ground the theological High Ground the every High Ground Under the Sun uh it's really just quite pathetic that that that's that's your go-to excuse uh when it comes to taking advantage of the most um you know vulnerable vulnerable uh Young people who who who who like they are literally programmed to put their trust in you and and and you betray that trust in ways they can't even begin to understand and now that they're grown up and they actually do understand how this event years ago exploded their entire lives and they come back and say you're not done being accountable for this yet like your response is not statue of limitations yeah it's there's no statute of limitations on sin there is no statute of limitations on the damage our sin can do to somebody else um so to say like well that was a long time ago it's like but you have not yet asked for forgiveness from your victims nor have you reconciled with them yes nor have you done what is necessary to you know at least attempt to undo the damage you did to them um right speaking of reconciliation like that whole idea once again like when when when you've wronged somebody it's not up to you to decide how to make it right it's up to the person you've wronged to set that to set that bar of this is what it means uh for all things to be made right again yeah but reconciliation is hard work and let's face it you know leadership in these organizations don't like doing that hard work um yeah but like if that's if that's the case Mark if and it is I believe you and I agree with you that these they don't want to do the hard work then why not just write the mother effing big big ass check and the NDA make him go away they don't want to do that either they don't want to do it the hard way and they don't want to do it the easy way they just don't want to do it you know and that makes it hard then to go back to your congregation and say you should love God you should love one another you you should feed the hungry you should clothe the naked you should house the homeless oh by the way you should improve yourself and you should you know the the rising Waters lifts all boats and so like that's all hard work and it doesn't really carry much weight if the leadership itself is not willing to do any of it yeah and and I think like beyond that it would be helpful if people being aware of this like if this guy gets ejected out of ministry you know he'll probably be like you know Brian he hou and whoever else that like 6 months later they're like oh I'm starting new ministry it's like you haven't made restitution You've Lost Your you know your um not validity what's a moral authority to be like a pastor I mean it's like you don't have that you need to humble yourself because clearly you cannot handle the responsibility you can't handle the truth no oh no I can never beat Jack Nicholson so I I won't even try that all right let's set this bird down um you know uh I think anybody who's been watching the last couple episodes kind of know that we've kind of done a return to form that if we're not going to like become Christian celebrities ourselves with a million viewers then we're just going to speak our minds gosh darn it and so uh we're just going to land this plane with persecution watch um Christian woman imprisoned in Iran without charges right hey Christian be a Christian go to jail do not pass go do not collect $200 and certainly do not get due process okay 150 Christians forcibly displaced in Mexico finally return home well hey if uh you're a Christian uh you know what you just can like leave your home in your possessions and go someplace where you're not going to get injured or killed or raped uh CU if you stay those are certainly things things going to happen to you listen all this to say that is if you are Kirk Cameron and you're upset about your book not being on the New York Times bestseller number one slot for bazillion weeks in a row you can go stick it where the sun don't shine and go pound sand you're not being persecuted you just didn't write a good book and for all you other American Christians who think it's persecution to tell you that your God doesn't mean much to other people you're not being persecuted you're just being told to go away and sometimes I agree with those people that you should just go away yeah you know when when somebody holds you accountable as a Christian whether they are a Christian or not when they hold you accountable for being a dick you know what thank the Lord that he sent that Messenger to you to correct you you know that's all I got to say about it absolutely right there there's some guy who's um very very popular on the socials kind of like a kind of I don't know what do you call him like a business um like productivity specialist like empowering your business to be Star Spangled awesome but he's really cool right cuz and he doesn't really talk about business from like how do we maximize stockholder shareholder profits or whatever you know he's always trying to talk about like that um like if you're not happy with your business you should probably take a look at your management right those kind of things and so he he kind of has a lot to say about um a criticism like and if you find yourself responding wildly to criticism chances are the criticism is pretty accurate and if you find yourself getting criticism and kind of Going H yeah maybe there might be Merit there you know chances are that something worth may maybe there is some maybe so maybe not room in there about that criticism you know so yeah so all these people who just cry the loudest like are really the most guilty of the things they're being accused

of we're church is lame um we are not here to to pile on to be part of the dog pile of negativity on church leaders Instead This podcast exists so that when church leaders ask the question why does nobody take Church seriously why is attendance down why do people not go to to their Christian leaders for for Life advice for help we every week we find those stories that answer that question we put them in a single place and hand them to you and say here's your answer and that's what we do we do it in our own snarky like we do it with a with a lack of reverence towards people reverence towards God not a whole lot of reverence towards people okay you put your skirt on like the big hole just like I do so you know we we we don't have a whole lot of rence for people but this is the mission is to to seriously unequivocally answer the question of why Church sucks um and so that's what we do so if you've got something to say by all means we want to hear from you you know let us know like like why do you think it is people are leaving the church why do you think it is that the Instinct of all church leaders is to sweep sexual abuse under the rug we want to hear from you so you know do the comment thing and the thumbs up and the thumbs down and the like And subscribe and the rate and review and the click click click click click things do them all and if like if you really have a lot you want to say by all means shoot us an email churches namame podcast gmail.com and with that go in peace and serve the Lord amen